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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Seems there has been a big increase in electric car sales and plug in hybrid cars this year.
I suppose the sorry tale of diesel has drove people away from it, and moved onto petrol (like myself) or electric and hybrid cars.

This has caused problems of congestion at the public plug in charge points available in the UK, and they cannot keep up with demand.

My town seafront carpark has went from two to four plug in stations, but if your the fifth electric car into the carpark to charge up, hard luck.

The problem is going to be as people turn to electric, they with be needing charged either at home or public charging points, and of course these 'green cars' have only transferred the polution to the power stations.

So does this mean more power stations required and the answer is Yes and do we want more Neuclear powers stations that are the most polluting of dangerous radiation ever..No, especially after fukashema in japan, which radiated the country and part of the west coast of the USA.

The other problem of electric cars, is still range, and the fact the batteries only last 7 years at best, causing considerable cost for replacements, or do you just bin the car?

Also the cost of an electric car or plug-in hybrid can be a lot more than a similary spec-ed fueled car, and some manufacturers charge you X amount a month for the batteries on hire (for life), rather than include it in initial cost.

So at the moment they are charging ahead with electric cars (pardon the pun), without really thinking much about the above.

What do you think?
 

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All I will say is wait until the government introduce some sort of 'Electric Tax' for these 'greener' cars.

Also, will there be a higher demand on the power stations? How will it affect peoples home electric bills?

I'm not convinced in the slightest that they are 'greener'. Until the day comes when battery and solar tech is vastly improved - just image driving a car that self charges while it's in motion and you never have the need to stop & recharge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well there is a tax on electric cars at the moment as the price of them to buy is a lot higher than a similar fueled car of the same model or make, so you pay more VAT.

But as you say, once the balance swings in favour of more electric cars on the road, the Government will just make a new formula for car taxation, instead of based on Co2 emissions. Likely based on the KW output of the cars electric motor, or something like that.

Another method will be home electric bills rise in price, etc, they do that anyway all the time.

There is no getting away that personal transport is expensive if you want the luxury, advantage, convenience and even practicality of you owning your own car over public transport.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
One good move by car manufactures of electric cars is to move away from battery leasing/rental for life.

Smart for instance who make the electric 453 Smart fortwo (two seater) and electric 453 Smart forfour (four seater) have now got rid of this pure tax of £50 a month for the batteries for life, so replacement batteries are costed in. They did this battery rental on the previous 451 Fortwo, and sales were poor.

This was quite a major reason people were put off buying an 'all electric' car. what they have done is lumped some of the battery cost onto the initial price of the car, and it is £16.5k for the basic electric 2 seater compared to £11k for a basic petrol 2 seater, so for the first owner at least the electric car belongs to you with batteries and all.

The batteries are now guarenteed for 8 years, so the problem is now shifted to secondhand owners needing replacement batteries at year eight onwards, as they are landed with the cost. But for the initial owner it will suit them better, not having to pay, so sales might be better.

Mind you it still does not solve the range problem on an Electric fortwo or forfour, of 100 miles in Summer, or 75 miles in winter on a 3 hour charge. Plus if there are hills on route that decreases range further.

Oh well, they are getting there :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Not all doom and gloom if you are landed with battery replacement in an old electric car.....

In America where they have had the hybrid Toyota Prius for many years with the batteries belonging to owners, specialist battery replacement companies have started up to look old electric cars and their batteries, and check for duff cells and replace them, so it is not a case of total replacement of batteries so keeps the cost down. I assume that in the UK this idea will be copied as electric cars get older and need replacement batteries (cells).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Yes doom and gloom again for electric car future (and fueled cars as well)

It did not take long for Southern Ireland to think about tax loss revenue if all cars go electric, and not paying fuel tax.

Ireland is proposing a tax per mile for all cars, so if you have electric car, then your back to more or less paying a fuel tax. And other countries may follow this lead if it goes ahead.

Only governments can think of ways of taxing more :(

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...n-rather-than-paying-excise-on-fuel-1.3588114
 

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A couple of days back, I had the renewal price for my electricity. Last year I did what was recommended and changed from one of the big 6 and found a company that at the time saved me some £40 per mth. Now this company has frightened me with their latest deal and increase of some 30%, so I have again been looking at other suppliers. One came back with a figure way above the projected one however I have again resorted to the comparison sites and have come up with a quote which means an increase of £11 per mth instead of the projected £35.
The point, well Maleko made the comment about waiting for the govt to put a tax on Electricity, they don't have to, the suppliers are doing just that.. All I can surmise is that there are some whopping great increases in the pipe line to the price of electricity.
Is it a coincidence that the govt has just brought in a scheme to help the less well off.

The likes of EDF etc have got to keep their shareholders happy, never mind the customer. I can only get electricity as there is no gas here and so we are penalised. It used to be we got a small discount for only having one type of power. Long gone.
It is all blamed on the wholesale price of gas as the majority of our electricity supplies come from gas generation, of course a lot of our gas comes from a very good friend. Vladimere Putin. Like it or not coal is in abundance under this country but nobody knows how to clean up the emissions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Strange how other nations can do it. Cynical No. Just fed up with trying to balance the family budget.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Biggest problem I have with my fuel provider is that they do not know the word No, to smart meters. At present I send my meter reading in by email to the provider, and it is checked once a year by a meter man.

I keep getting hounded by email and letter that smart meters are in your area now, and I do not want one ever, regarding the dangers to your body and mind with emf fields, and the 'big brother' watching you , knowing when you are in and out of your house due to 'real time' consumption. This info could get into the hands of crooks or even authorites. Also some smart meters are burning houses down. And some people have been hit with crazy bills.

At least in the UK you can opt out and refuse a smart meter (by law), but in the USA they do not have that option in many states, and people are getting their power cut off, if they refuse a smart meter, and either have to survive without electricity and gas, or go off grid.

PS..there is one proviso where a new meter must be fitted in the UK if your old meter is now too old and dangerous, and they will replace with a smart meter, but you can demand it being set on DUMB mode with no wi-fi output, and readings must still be read either by house owner or meter reader man.
 

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I too am of the mind that I do NOT want a smart meter. Whether or not they give out undesirable 'waves' into the air I am not clever enough to know, having said that I do not believe the experts that poo poo the danger of mobile phones and the microwaves used, after all we cook with microwave ovens so a smart meter could well chuck out undesirable energy waves BUT I do so agree with colinJYD in that it is an imposition. Probably dreamed up by some suit shining person with nothing better to do. It certainly smacks of big brother. Yes I can concede that meter reading is expensive to the suppliers but it begs the question how much spread over a customers annual bill.. I too send my meter readings to the supplier via Email. It takes but a few moments each month.
One company I contacted about a quote I told them I did not want a smart meter, thinking this would block any application but no the answer was smart meters are NOT compulsory at the present time and they have given me a very competitive quote.
I also looked up smart meters on the Citizens Advice site . It seems companies are with holding the cheaper tariffs for the benefit of those that accept a smart meter. I have also read and I think this is what colinJYD is referring to, that is you can ask ( it should be demand ) the meter is switched off and the customer supplies a reading each month. It seems some suppliers are insisting on a smart meter and that appears to be unlawful.
 

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Avoid smart meters, they are very dangerous may explode or burn your house down! Also they give out a lot of radiation, and of course they do take a continuous amount of electricity without any safety fuses.
If I had to have one, they would have to be fitted outside the boundary to my house, so all the radiation and fire hazard is not with me!
 

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I am at a loss why the government is pushing electric cars, where is all the lithium going to come from to make the batteries? In a crash an electric car is going to behave in a spectacular way, with all that energy on board.As for efficiency, there are large losses in the inverter and motor and battery is going to need cooling, then the losses in the charger,distribution and lastly generation. you are looking at huge CO2 emissions for the power stations.
Would be better to control the number of vehicles on the roads.
 

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I did see an item on the Tele from the Fire Brigades prospective. The speaker was concerned as to what would happen when a water jet was directed at the battery. These batteries are not a couple of AAA's they are potentially dangerous given the amperage in them.
As an aside my Brother is a Farrier in British Columbia and there they are just finishing or have completed another Hydro Electric scheme which is just enough to cope at the present time. It has been written that the authorities there are concerned at the prospect of a large uptake of electric cars which would necessitate another scheme. He pays £1 a gallon for fuel. His work vehicle is a V8 Land Rover and he travels many miles to his customers. Some of which have multi thousand acres of land and many horses. Like their next door neighbours I can't see the North Americans giving up their 'monsters'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My biggest worry is by electric cars passing this power onto the electrical power stations, we might end up under capacity in the UK, and the requirement for more of the dreaded Nuclear power stations. Considering what happened in Japan recently, where their whole country and the west coast of the USA has got contaminated with radiation, and remembering Chernobyl which hit us in the Uk and mainland europe, this is the last thing we want again on our doorstep.

The fallacy of Nuclear energy being cheap, can be seen by the decommissioning figures for Dounray, which will take another 30 years to decommission and untold billions of pounds paid by the tax payer, and that's only one small power station, and we have the last two to be decommissioned in Scotland due to go off-line in 10 years time, costing yet more billions.

Just hope they see sense, and go for any other type of ways of creating power, like green energies, etc.

PS....They should actually give every household with a roof in the UK free solar panels to feed the national grid, that would be cheaper than a whole load of new power stations, and free us of big bills :D
 

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It has been announced that Dyson are building an electric car plant in Singapore. Sir James is investing 2billion in the project. Production should be in 2021. The question of batteries is not disclosed. In the same article from the Beeb it refers to Dyson's foray into the solid state battery manufacture in the USA but has had to write off a large sum of money.
Obviously the battery question is a while away from being sorted.
What is a concern is the push to electric cars, given the time to charge a battery and the access to the charging points being a problem I do wonder what is going to happen.
If you take a busy filling station with it's throughput how on earth are the experts going to provide a) the charging points and b) where they are to go. I should think the average filling station in a small town deals with say 100 cars an hour. 100 cars in all probability would fill the whole area of that filling station for how many hours? Not much return on that OR are they going to cover even more green field sites with huge areas of tarmac and charging points. OR of course we can build charging depots built like the VW distribution place in Germany where cars are stored in a multi story building with computerised lifts.awaiting sale. What ever they decide it's going to cost mega pounds to build an infra structure to cope. Filling stations are on the wane but have taken a very long time to establish. HM Government wants it all done in 20 yrs. Then of course we will still have many many ICE cars running around.
 
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